Are we losing the 'sound' of Frankie Valli and the Four Seasons?

When it comes down to the ‘sound’ of Frankie Valli and The Four Seasons it seems that fans have been done a disservice over the years. The recent Box Set issue of Jersey Beat was a missed opportunity and the muddy mono mixes and disappointing 60s stereo mixes leaves this groups ‘definitive’, sound quality compilation a distant dream. It hasn’t always been this way.

 

Back in 1968 Bob Crewe remixed what he could find of their masters. (Philips apparantly didn’t do a good job of managing the multi-track masters and these appear to be lost.) But did Bob give us ‘true’ stereo on Edizione D’Oro or as the sleeve indicates…”Mono recordings electronically reprocessed to give stereo effect on stereo equipment”?  

Back in 1997 Steve Massie said….”Bill Inglot has indicated that multi-tracks do not exist or at least can’t be found. He’s been through PolyGram’s vaults several times and says that Bob Gaudio and Frankie Valli do not have them either.”

Bill reviewed all that Bob and Frankie have for this Box Set with Rhino. Associate Producer Charles Alexander told us of the sound decisions on this set…….“Bill Inglot offered Bob Gaudio a choice of mono or stereo, except in the cases like ‘Ronnie’, for which stereo is unavailable. Ronnie is not in stereo even on the ACE sets.”

However check out Crewe’s work on Edizione D’Oro back in 1968 . Whatever he did with the mixes, it could be argued that this album is a ‘definitive’ set of what the producer felt the ‘SOUND’ should be….from what was available. No-one knows for sure what happened to the ‘stereo’ masters of this album and ACE couldn’t get them when they did the album's only CD release back in 1997. Whether lost or not, no issue of these excellent stereo mixes on CD has happenned. Now the decisions on mixes are made by Bob Gaudio who was not the original producer.

For the ‘Jersey Beat’ set although alternate stereo and mono discs where prepared for Bob Gaudio, he elected for MONO on the first 23 tracks in the 76 track set. Charles covers the argument familiar to all those who have researched the Mono V Stereo arguments. The Beatles Masters and The Beach Boys Masters have a chequered history too but at least the multi-tracks haven’t been lost like those of  the Four Seasons. And then there are the Duophonic versions!

Charles told us of the arguments considered for the Jersey Beat Box set….”The main arguments for stereo were that it sounds more modern and was well done on most of the tracks, though on a few tracks, like Beggars Parade, the stereo was truly terrible. The stereo version of Rag Doll is good, but one of Frankie’s notes is missing. I guess that’s why Bill Inglot has almost never used the stereo version of Rag Doll. Here are the arguments for mono:

1. Mono is how we first heard the early songs. We heard them first on singles.
2. Early stereo mixes were not done, I don’t believe, by Crewe and Gaudio. They were afterthoughts done just by the engineers.
3. Fans already have the stereo mixes on many other CDs.  Mono on CD is rare. That was Ace’s rationale for putting the mono versions on Edizione D’Oro, but that CD is out of print.
4. It can be argued that the 4 Seasons’ famous four-part harmony is more glorious in mono than when the other three voices are separated from Frankie’s in stereo.
5. It’s always been weird that even on the best CD collections, the tracks go in and out of stereo, because of missing stereo tapes, like Ronnie. It just seems haphazard. In that sense, it was more coherent to stay consistently with mono for 23 tracks before switching to stereo. (Cousin Brucie in mono was the only flaw in that pattern.)”

So those are the reasons why we have this set of tracks which many believe are below par…” Here are some comments from reviews…..

“And the sound quality isn’t much an improvement than the older Rhino, Curb and Ace UK reissues. It’s just been remastered louder than before with more compression and bass EQ for the IPOD generation (a fault of most newly “remastered” CD’s -some have already complained, so hang onto those 80-90’s vintage Seasons CD’s!).”

“I was extremely disaappointed at the sound quality of the first disc of this set. I didn’t even try another CD. The distortion and fuzz were awfully noticeable. It was not my Bose speakers or the notebook’s sound-card as I tested an mp3 from my music library. The sound was as bad as a bargain Roy Orbison live performance CD I bought for $3.99 years back…….I can’t believe the sound I am hearing here.”

“This is an excellent boxed set, but the sound is fuzzy and most tracks sound like they were washed with clorox. This is a common problem with copy protected discs. As I own the original sets on Rhino and the LP versions, I am very disappointed with the MONO FOLDED IMAGE PRESENTATION PROVIDED BY THE RHINO ENGINEERS. .ln no way is this collection true to the original recordings ….so yes the music is there and if you can’t hear the copy protection distortion, go for it...lf you don’t believe me and you own the original Rhino recordings, just compare them yourselves. And to the RHINO ENGINEERS..TAKE YOUR ORIGINAL RECORDINGS AND COMPARE THEM.UNLESS YOU ARE DEAF COMPARE THEM.YOU WILL BE SHOCKED!!!!!!THANK YOU!I would wait until they are remastered in clean stereo sound, without the crappy distortion on this one.”

However George Schowerer, who was sound engineer to Bob Crewe at Mira Sound for the 1966/67 sessions said he was very disappointed with the remixes of his original studio masters on Rhino’s original CD mixes for the 25^th Anniversary set.  . Of the Jersey Beat project he told us…….

“Bill Inglot told me that when he received tapes from all the songs, he noted that in some cases the record company had destroyed the multi-tracks, thereby causing only the famous mix heard on the radio to be the defacto recording heard by everyone. While I certainly do not condone that rationale, I can somewhat understand their fear of having other versions appear…as in the case of the group Bread… I must have half a dozen totally different mixes of their albums...with the very first CD release being dry and mixed as if the engineer had never heard any of the groups’ previous releases. But then again, the same thing happened to Simon & Garfunkel’s fist CD mix. I had A-B ed the CD against my two track 15” safety copy and my jaw dropped. The Sony guys had to get Roy Halle back into the studio to remix the album for CD. Same went for classical first CD’s.
Columbia brought Andy Kazdin back in to remix his previous albums to CD. Columbia evidently had young (cheap) kids do the first set of transfers to CD, and they added highs and they equalized (terribly) some of the greatest albums into trash.”

So is there any hope as Paul Bigelow asked back in 1997… “I have never heard anything on CD by them (The Four Seasons)  that I would call superlative…..(sound quality) The ACE reissues sound OK and look good, but I think they’re working from the same tapes Rhino worked from - just mastered better.”

So who will find that ‘Definitive’ compilation of the 60s “Sound Of Frankie Valli and The Four Seasons” and should it be in mono or stereo.?

We agree with the words of Steve Hoffman who is not only one of the true legends in audiophile circles, he is also one of the most open minded and open hearted people you can find.  He is loved and well know by audiophiles and musicians all over the world. He is a true magician when it comes to breathing life into music. His work can be heard on albums like The Eagle’s Hotel California, Bob Dylan’s Highway 61 Revisited, and Joni Mitchell’s Blue.

“It’s all in the mastering. Digital is a great medium. Any CD can sound good….. It takes a good mastering engineer! : Stereo is better but it’s not about stereo vs. mono, it’s about which classic song has the best mix. If the stereo mix “nails it” it’s the mix to listen to. If the mono mix “nails it”, it’s the mix to listen to. In the old days the MONO mix was the one that the producer made.  In the 1950’s, mono was live to one track and the three-track machine was running separately for the final stereo mix. It was only when records started being OVERDUBBED a lot (Beatles, etc.) that the separate mono feed was dropped and the final mono and stereo mix created from the four track tape.”

When asked ….Is stereo a must? …he replied. “ Not to me. The best mix is the best mix. A song like DRIVE MY CAR by the Beatles, the stereo mix is really weak, the mono mix is really strong and punchy, therefore that’s the good mix”

So what can we the fans do. We can’t wait for a quality sound re-issue…life is too short. Firstly let’s find good copies of all the Four Seasons 60s albums in stereo on vinyl and CD and define the best mixes.

Secondly using good technology and software show how we care about the mixes and see if we can get a quality result from good/mint vinyl.

Thirdly list  the mixes (mono or stereo)  in a Four Seasons Sound Archive to preserve the best mixes for future generations. With something like 110 CD releases since 1986 in our discography(and there may be more) we have plenty to evaluate.

But if we can define the best mix and identify it's source we have a library reference point for any future releases that don't measure up.

The question is whether there are enough people interested in such a project and if we can find good enough vinyl.? Contact us if you are interested and want to help. Maybe we can achieve something nobody seems to be willing to invest in. It appears a project to remix from the masters cannot work commercially because of the low benefits from it. But someone should try. It’s what the fans today and tomorrow deserve.

For more interesting quotes and comment re 60s sound including more from Bob Crewe's sound engineer click here.

And just beware…because our reliable European based expert sound engineer tells us of today's CD's ….”The Ace CD pressings from that 1997 period are low quality (they used cheap pressing plants), so checking for errors (C2) on the original CDCHD 642 showed a max of 80 and a total of 570. Companies shouldn’t accept anything over 30 max and 100 total from a pressing plant! “

So we may lose the 'sound'. It’s time to make a good copy before the original fades away and becomes unreadable. More soon on how best to hear the ‘sound’ and  what is involved in creating the ‘best mix’

Casey Chameleon

Contact for contributors to our Sound Archive project

[email protected]

 Photo courtesy of George Schowerer - Studio shot - Crewe and Valli 1967

 

Comments

[Jose Fritz]

thanks for the link compadre

[Karl Baker]

What the heck do you mean "Nobody is praying: "Put the Beach Boys out in Mono like the original 45 rpms sounded". I - and many others - want precisely that: the original 45 mono mixes - just well remastered.

As for the Four Seasons and Frankie Valli: I've just begun my own project of doing transfers of all the Bob Crewe era
recordings from original Vee-Jay & Philips 45s (no reissues) to preserve those original mixes.

So far, I have 19 of those singles in my possession and 11 more on their way (with only 26 more to go).

Keep in mind that 45s often had different mixes, edits, takes, fades or even speed adjustments from even their mono LP counterparts.

Concurrent with this I am doing transfers of the mono LPs. Just compare the mono and stereo versions of the Working My Way Bak To You album if you think that there's little difference between the two.

[Steve]

In the end, I think we shall go away from that still existing dilemma of "Mono as it sounded originally on the 45 rpm".

This just limits creativity! Every younger listener (20 to 40 years old) had never heard these track in mono on an AM radio or 60s record player originally. They are used to the good stereo versions from the original albums or (later) the Rhino 25th Anniversary box. When they have grown up in NYC, they all know how WCBS-FM played the hell out of the 4 Seasons catalogue on air with "great sounding" tracks of their hits - if mono or stereo doesn't matter! Ask the original engineer or producers how they had wished the song shall sound (or have sounded).

Nobody is praying: "Put the Beach Boys out in Mono like the original 45 rpms sounded" - everybody is saying: "What is the best sound we can archive from the currently available masters, even when they are different".

Take their latest (remixed) best of - sampler CDs "Sound Of Summer" / "Warmth of The Sun" / "California Feelin" / "Pet Sounds" - Duophonic + Stereo = every has a different mix or/and a different intention toward the buyer, but all are interesting. The company seems to try to get every cent out of this group CD-wise, even with Brian Wilson still active and releasing new CDs.

Why not on the 4 Seasons? Where is the steady flow on CDs, ALL original LPs re-packed and carefully presented with alt. versions? Even one or two bonus tracks on each CD would do it - which can be archived even today with the material which is/was available - compare a Vee Jay Stereo LP mix again a Philips Stereo LP mix or find a version that has something different - overdub missing, intro shorter, bridge cut etc. Nice bonus tracks for a CD and worth it, buyer-wise. Ace did it! The 4 Seasons fan / CD buyer has to go & find the CCM releases online while majors like Columbia are trying to melk the last drop out of their Simon & Garfunkel catalogue with new "packages" every half a year (some has just added a DVD toward the "old" CD package, which could be done re. the 4 Seasons also easily).

Now is the time for CD releases, while Jersey Boys is hot. Not in 5 or 10 years, while nobody can forsee if it's all down then to portable players and ipod sound quality. "Jersey Beat" was a good try as start, but could have been better. It shall be followed with more products NOW. And, please, the original albums as 2 on 1 (or stereo / mono on 1 as the Beach Boys once did) plus bonus tracks, remixed by the original producers / engineers on state-of-the art equipment (HDCD ?).